• Your favorite

    Apple

    ,

    iPhone

    ,

    iPad

    ,

    iOS

    ,
    Jailbreak
    , and
    Cydia
    site.
  • Engineer to CR: You're Doing It Wrong


    An electromagnetic engineer has found fault with the way Consumer Reports did its iPhone 4 testing, calling it "uncontrolled, unscientific" and no different than the simple experiments "that many of the blogging sites have done." While Bob Egan - who says he dealt with "exactly the kind of issues that now face Apple" in his career - stops short of saying that there is no problem, he says it was wrong of Consumer Reports to present their testing results as authoritative.

    As reported here on Monday, Consumer Reports claimed to have "confirmed" the reported antenna issue, replicating the results found by many users and more than a few blogs, and saying "it's official." Its lab tests consisted of setting up three new iPhone 4s in a sealed chamber with a "base station emulator," along with three other phones including an iPhone 3GS and a Palm Pre. Consumer Reports engineers are seen in the video of the testing in the lab, surrounded by a bunch of equipment with an iPhone in a clamp that looks like a robotic hand. Sure enough, when one of the engineers touches the lower-left corner, signal drops, and the other phones perform normally in the same tests.

    While the sealed chamber and base station emulator gave the ability to measure transmit power accurately, allowing more precise calculation of the difference between expected and observed signal, the test in general was no different than what Anand Shimpi had done weeks before, or really than what thousands of users have done on their own. Egan seems to be comparing the testing to an FCC certification test when he asserts that "the iPhone should have been sitting on a non-metallic pedestal inside an anechoic chamber," with no people inside the chamber and that "the base station simulator should have been also sitting outside the chamber and had a calibrated antenna plumbed to it from inside the chamber." He was asked in the comments to his blog post how they could have done the testing with no people inside. In response, Egan referred to the dummy heads used in specific absorption rate (SAR) testing of phones for the FCC. To gain meaningful information about the extent and possible cause of the problem, Egan notes, more scientific testing would have been necessary.

    It should be established beyond a reasonable doubt by this point that the Death Grip problem is real. Apple has no doubt confirmed the problem in its lab testing, and may even be starting to make moves to address it. While Consumer Reports probably overreached in saying the problem was "confirmed," it's at least another report - like Anandtech's - with detailed and specific results - and will hopefully be yet another spur for Apple to step up and deal with the issue directly.

    Source: AppleInsider
    This article was originally published in forum thread: Engineer to CR: You're Doing It Wrong started by Paul Daniel Ash View original post
    Comments 78 Comments
    1. Maxidrom2002's Avatar
      Maxidrom2002 -
      ...for the record i don't like mine, but will enjoy it as soon as a jailbreak comes out, its on stand by right now! ))
      ...it will grant you three wishes, and one of those wishes can be an iphone...
      no, i want an iphone 4, white one with more GB's....

      freakin pathetic!)))))))
    1. cartman13's Avatar
      cartman13 -
      Without saying there is an issue or not... Apple allows you to return the phone within 30 days of purchase. so why don't all the people that are whining, cyring, or pissed over this return their phones? I've yet to see anyone return their "defective" "soon to be reaclled" phone in all my trips to the apple store.

      The "defective" iphone still has a 3 week wait when ordered on the apple site. and you wonder why Apple thinks they can get away with it..... it's cause the iphone is like crack, and if you are on this site, you are probably an addict.
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Quote Originally Posted by giancarlo View Post
      Why don't you guys just get bumpers and STFU about this whole thing already. Apple is not sweating with this whole death grip recall crap because look at the news....the phone is still selling out and people still wait. The pro's of this phone outweigh the cons. Like others on here, I got mine at launch and never had an issue with dropped calls or signal....but I am in Miami. Regardless I STILL bought a bumper for the phone, because quite honestly I think it looks better and feels more sturdy with the bumper. You guys can either continue blogging and crying or just really get a bumper....you might be surprised how much you'll like it afterwards



      BTW, it's not a defective device. You're apparently still using it when chances are you have a backup phone at home.
      Why would anyone have to buy a bumper???
      Especially when Apple keeps claiming that iPhone4 has better reception than 3GS and forgot to put a disclaimer in small print "must place it by itself on a table"?
      Wouldn't that considered bait-n-switch by any other company? Telling you buy this thing it is the best product we put out yet, after you buy it "Oh! you have to buy this other thing to make it work right".
      Why are you angry about people complaining about iPhone 4 it is their problem, if you do not have the problem GREAT! skip articles like this.

      BTW this article does not prove that the test is flawed and iPhone4 is ok, it just says it is not as scientific as the person like. Consumer Reports test is more of a real world test than this scientific test. In real world when I use the phone I am not sitting outside of a sealed room using a dummy hand to make the calls, I would be inside the room with the phone to place the calls. After all I do not have the "Thing" from the Addams family to use the iPhone for me, so how would his "Scientic Test" work out for me or you?
      Got to give Apple a tiny bit more credit now, at least they allow a whole hand to be with the phone than before when they require the phone sit on a counter by itself.

      What is his credentials of this Egan person? He claims that he is an engineer, but who does he work for? What products have he tested? Did he even bother do a test himself with conditions he liked before criticizing about the test? Even if he can provide all that put it side by side with Consumer Reports, I take Consumer Reports over this Egan person anyday.
    1. Maxidrom2002's Avatar
      Maxidrom2002 -
      Quote Originally Posted by cartman13 View Post
      Without saying there is an issue or not... Apple allows you to return the phone within 30 days of purchase. so why don't all the people that are whining, cyring, or pissed over this return their phones? I've yet to see anyone return their "defective" "soon to be reaclled" phone in all my trips to the apple store.

      The "defective" iphone still has a 3 week wait when ordered on the apple site. and you wonder why Apple thinks they can get away with it..... it's cause the iphone is like crack, and if you are on this site, you are probably an addict.
      ...crack, i want my crack right now!))))
    1. prostovanka's Avatar
      prostovanka -
      you said test was done wrong, I disagree.

      Yes there were factors that made iPhone 4 test seem wrong.

      But we wanted to know if phone is basictly in a HUMAN hand not in a lab where Signal is 120%

      If you hold phone in hand it drops calls and disconnects of network for alot of us.

      Also proximity sensor is Annoying. Now that its on top ear speaker when phone is on ur face and proximity sensor shoots in your ear. The small Gap there makes proximity sensor think that there's no object near by and it turns on the screen and you're face pressed either Mute/End Call/FaceTime/Contacts >then calls/KeyPad/Speaker or ADD CALL.

      I my face ends up pressing END Call 75% of the time. Which is really really really Annoying. I think the proximity sensor makes more people blame the Antenna, due to the fact that they press End call with face and think it was a DROPPED CALL.
    1. topless1967stang's Avatar
      topless1967stang -
      Regardless of lab tests, the death grip is a real problem in real life situations. When I try the death grip, my download speed goes down about about 40%, and my upload speed goes down about 66%. If I use my case made by Ifrogz, I don't get and death grip effect.

      Stevie Boy should not tell people to don't hold their phones a certain way. If the phone is to not be held a certain way than they should tell you that before you buy the phone. That would be some great advertising.

      I got my phone on June 23rd, and I feel like I have to pay for the luxury of having the phone early with an inferior phone because I'm sure phones that are shipping now probably don't have the death grip problem anymore.
    1. x999x's Avatar
      x999x -
      Hay Guise its wrong the because
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      Consumer Reports reply to Bob Egan should be:
      Dear Mr Egan,
      Thank you for bringing this error to our attention. Unfortunately we can not locate "Thing" from Addam's Family to do a "real world" scientific test for you. If you could find a severed hand that can perform all function of a human hand that somehow require the use of a phone when it does not even have a mouth to speak with, we would gladly send a limo and a private jet to fly it to our testing facility to redo this iPhone 4 test. Anxiously awaiting on your response... Consumer Reports "None Scientific" team
    1. QuinnNebula's Avatar
      QuinnNebula -
      still with this stuff?
    1. tekwiz's Avatar
      tekwiz -
      Quote Originally Posted by sal_osx View Post
      Consumer Reports = EPIC FAIL!
      My friend purchased an IPhone 4 on Sunday and it has no problems. But 3 of my friends that purchased it on the date it came out have the death grip issue so it leads me to believe that Apple is doing something differently.
      It's way to sketchy to be able to call it that easily. I've had the issue on two phones, first phone, and now the replacement phone (other phone was dropping into recovery mode all by itself if left alone for a few hours) but the amount of moisture on my hand AS WELL AS how long I hold the grip are what determines if the problem happens.

      It reminds me of one of the early home user videos where the guy put his hand in the area for maybe 5 seconds, didn't see a change and said it didn't have the issue... Way too many variables.
    1. FerrariCUBU's Avatar
      FerrariCUBU -
      Seriously, can we all just get over the "death grip"? We know that it exists and Apple should fix it. People like this science guy trying to disprove the antenna problem are only causing more problems. I hardly notice the problem when gripping my i4. So, get a case, don't buy the phone, or stop talking about it!
    1. jalexis4192's Avatar
      jalexis4192 -
      Interesting.
    1. unison999's Avatar
      unison999 -
      KEEP talking about it.
      Talk about it until Apple fixes the problem!
      There is plenty of uninformed consumer out there, those people are the ones Apple cashing off of right now.
      Inform as many people as you can regards to this problem until it become common knowledge, even here in MMi because there are new users signing on every day that should know about this problem.
      If you do not want to read about this, skip articles like this!
    1. Cokeman's Avatar
      Cokeman -
      Quote Originally Posted by giancarlo View Post
      Why don't you guys just get bumpers and STFU about this whole thing already. Apple is not sweating with this whole death grip recall crap because look at the news....the phone is still selling out and people still wait. The pro's of this phone outweigh the cons. Like others on here, I got mine at launch and never had an issue with dropped calls or signal....but I am in Miami. Regardless I STILL bought a bumper for the phone, because quite honestly I think it looks better and feels more sturdy with the bumper. You guys can either continue blogging and crying or just really get a bumper....you might be surprised how much you'll like it afterwards
      Why don't you STFU about the damn bumpers. If you want to put that cheap looking crap on your phone go for it.



      Quote Originally Posted by giancarlo View Post
      BTW, it's not a defective device. You're apparently still using it when chances are you have a backup phone at home.
      Yes it is defective. It is a PHONE if it doesn't get reception it just became a iPod Touch. I do have backup phones & I am using them. Because Apple made a PHONE that CAN'T hold reception for me to talk to people.

      Quote Originally Posted by kuhndsn View Post
      If it don't work for you than return it for a refund. The ball is in your court. If you think it's a bad product dot buy it. Apple already said return it. Why are all the people demanding--missing this point? Yes it's your right to buy the phone but it's your decision to buy and say with what you feel is substandard. It's getting old reading the hate mail over this. You find a hair in your food do you still eat it? Or if you get bad service all the time do you go back? Come on there is life without an iPhone. Return it and move on!!!

      Also people like you quote has some truth however, constant complaining and false claims with no truth like cr is also counter productive. I would rather apple take their time (yes that's fine the did wave return fees for people wishing to get a full refund) and get it right! Let's say it is the software. And they recalled or issued bumpers and that didn't work. Hmmmm so let's either return the phone or be satisfied with what works. Case.
      I bought a iPhone 3G launch day, 3 days later I was at the Apple store getting a replacement. The phone would not hold reception. Dropped calls like crazy. Apple replaced it no problems. Here we are 2 years later and I have the same problem. Dropped calls. I went to the Apple Store again. This time I got a piss off. Why? Cause when the phone was on the counter it had service. I called the Apple store while in the store and my call dropped. Still they said the phone is fine. Used my 3GS to call the store did not drop the call. So it's pretty clear my iPhone 4 has a problem.
      I left with out a replacement. Went straight to the store I bought if from. Returned the phone. Waited for my contract to reset. Bought a new iPhone 4. Now this phone is better and drops the calls 75% of the time.
      So the question is. If my 3G had these problems and Apple exchanged it no questions asked. Why is it now they refuse to exchange a defective device? I don't think every iPhone 4 has the issue. I don't think Apple should issue a recall. I do think they should replace the phones that have reception issues.

      Now comes another problem. If i return this phone. I can not get another iPhone 4 on my line. Because Apple limits each line to 2 iPhones per year. I have until the 1st of Aug. to return it. If Apple hasn't fixed it I will return it and move on.
      Telling people to quit whining, crying, or b******* about it doesn't make it any less of a problem. I'm sure people are tired of hearing it. Hell I'm tired of hearing, but I'm also tired of being told buy a bumper. When Apple should step up and figure out what the problem is.
      Sorry so long.
    1. Antman217's Avatar
      Antman217 -
      Quote Originally Posted by sal_osx View Post
      Consumer Reports = EPIC FAIL!
      My friend purchased an IPhone 4 on Sunday and it has no problems. But 3 of my friends that purchased it on the date it came out have the death grip issue so it leads me to believe that Apple is doing something differently.
      Yeah i think this is only happening to the early models. I think if you get one now the problem is fixed. I think anyone that bought on release date should go exchange theirs for the new ones just to be safe and see if the new ones don't have the problem. I think apple should coat the antenna band with a thin layer of clear plastic so it looks the same but theres actually a layer of protection over the antenna band. Like the invisible shields that go all around the phone except only over the antenna band. So when you touch the antenna you are actually contacting the layer of plastic and not the actual antenna.
    1. Comedy's Avatar
      Comedy -
      Wow. I wonder if consumerist and news websites are being cautious of reporting this yet to avoid the bad publicity it generates from people that can't agree there's a problem.

      I for one don't need to read consumerreports, blogs, forums, mmi or any other website to know there's a problem with the iPhone 4... I have one and trust my own opinion enough that when I see it not able to maintain a data connection I just return it.
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      If you bought it, it doesn't meet your satisfaction standards and you are unhappy with your phone, return it. No one is forcing you to keep something you deem defective. Apple has a return policy, and so does AT&T. I had this problem when I first got the phone, now for whatever reason I can't get it to drop the signal and I haven't dropped one call or had any drop in data speed since I've had it. Best phone I've ever owned, bar none. Reception, after the quirk where the so called 'Death Grip' caused problems, has proven to be better than any phone I've had. Absolutely nothing I do to the phone in metro Atlanta and surrounding areas results in any problems, here in South Carolina I had the problem for a few days and now it's gone. All in the space of my return period, I sweated it out and now I have no problems. Not even with my free MicroCell do I get any problems.

      I have a case because I work in aircraft hangars that have concrete floors. That helps even more against having this problem, if I were to experience it again. When I'm not at work I don't use a case. This is a open and shut case. Apple isn't 'screwing' anyone. You can return it. Apple isn't 'cheating' anyone. You can return it. Apple doesn't have a 'crisis' on their hands. You can return it. Apple doesn't 'owe' anyone anything, case or whatever. You can return it. You aren't entitled to this phone, and I don't see how Apple owes anyone anything that they aren't in any way forced to own when you can get a refund. This is nothing more than people trying to hop on the bandwagon, make a name for themselves, or trying to ellict some undeserved compensation.

      Don't like the product? Return it for a refund and shut the f-u-c-k up and stop whining like someone owes you something. It's really that simple.

      Quote Originally Posted by Cokeman View Post
      I bought a iPhone 3G launch day, 3 days later I was at the Apple store getting a replacement. The phone would not hold reception. Dropped calls like crazy. Apple replaced it no problems. Here we are 2 years later and I have the same problem. Dropped calls. I went to the Apple Store again. This time I got a piss off. Why? Cause when the phone was on the counter it had service. I called the Apple store while in the store and my call dropped. Still they said the phone is fine. Used my 3GS to call the store did not drop the call. So it's pretty clear my iPhone 4 has a problem.
      I left with out a replacement. Went straight to the store I bought if from. Returned the phone. Waited for my contract to reset. Bought a new iPhone 4. Now this phone is better and drops the calls 75% of the time.
      So the question is. If my 3G had these problems and Apple exchanged it no questions asked. Why is it now they refuse to exchange a defective device? I don't think every iPhone 4 has the issue. I don't think Apple should issue a recall. I do think they should replace the phones that have reception issues.

      Now comes another problem. If i return this phone. I can not get another iPhone 4 on my line. Because Apple limits each line to 2 iPhones per year. I have until the 1st of Aug. to return it. If Apple hasn't fixed it I will return it and move on.
      Telling people to quit whining, crying, or b******* about it doesn't make it any less of a problem. I'm sure people are tired of hearing it. Hell I'm tired of hearing, but I'm also tired of being told buy a bumper. When Apple should step up and figure out what the problem is.
      Sorry so long.
      So Apple is at fault because you can't learn your lesson? You can't get that, in your experience, Apple doesn't make a product you think that functions in line with your expectations and you keep coming back for more? Apple isn't your problem and neither is this phone. You keep doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. If you continue to buy things that don't work for you, you're the problem not Apple and not the iPhone.
    1. Windmeel's Avatar
      Windmeel -
      Quote Originally Posted by Cokeman View Post
      Now comes another problem. If i return this phone. I can not get another iPhone 4 on my line. Because Apple limits each line to 2 iPhones per year. I have until the 1st of Aug. to return it. If Apple hasn't fixed it I will return it and move on.
      Telling people to quit whining, crying, or b******* about it doesn't make it any less of a problem. I'm sure people are tired of hearing it. Hell I'm tired of hearing, but I'm also tired of being told buy a bumper. When Apple should step up and figure out what the problem is.
      Sorry so long.
      Are you upgrade eligible or out of your contract? You can always open up a new line and get the iPhone 4 and close your existing line after transferring the number over of course. And if you are under contract, you could still do it by paying $10 a month for the new line and just never use it. Or putting the SIM in a POS phone and use it for emergencies like I do.

      This is all backup plans of course if you have issues with the 2 per line thing. I honestly don't know about that.
    1. tdamocles's Avatar
      tdamocles -
      Quote Originally Posted by cb22 View Post
      Interesting... You what I've noticed about this whole "death grip" thing. It all depends on were you located! I've been in Tampa for a few months now and I noticed that signal in my apt is great. I tried the death grip thing and I didn't lose any signal nor dropped bars! Went to ny a few days ago and all he'll broke loose. Lol!!
      I have a similar situation. In Conshocken, PA I can't get the death grip to show but 35miles west it will do it all day long.
    1. KartRacer's Avatar
      KartRacer -
      Quote Originally Posted by topless1967stang View Post
      Regardless of lab tests, the death grip is a real problem in real life situations. When I try the death grip, my download speed goes down about about 40%, and my upload speed goes down about 66%. If I use my case made by Ifrogz, I don't get and death grip effect.

      Stevie Boy should not tell people to don't hold their phones a certain way. If the phone is to not be held a certain way than they should tell you that before you buy the phone. That would be some great advertising.

      I got my phone on June 23rd, and I feel like I have to pay for the luxury of having the phone early with an inferior phone because I'm sure phones that are shipping now probably don't have the death grip problem anymore.
      Don't like it, take it back for a refund. It's that simple. Don't like the reply Steve Jobs gave to how it's supposed to be held and think it's wrong to treat customers that way, don't buy their products. Even better, do your damn research on a phone or anything else that costs hundreds of dollars. If you keep a defective product when it easily returned for a refund you deserve to be out the cost. It's your fault for wasting your money on something you know doesn't work to your satisfaction or fit your needs. No one is owed anything and no one is being screwed. This entitlement crap has got to stop. But you're right, you are paying for a luxury, but it's not Steve Jobs' fault if you keep something that doesn't work and you aren't satisfied with. It's yours.