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  • About Those VeriPhone Rumors...


    Rumors are not news, I know… but when enough reports come together, all pointing in the same direction, then at a given point it's worth stopping and taking a look at what it all adds up to. If you're bored by all the rumor talk (and believe me, I'm pretty sick of it myself), please accept my apologies, and don't click the MORE link. For the sake of some folks out there, though - people who are wondering if they should buy an iPhone 4 now, for example, or if they should extend their AT&T contract - let's look at what the evidence there is for a Verizon iPhone in 2011.

    Verizon Wireless - just to review - uses a different telephony standard from AT&T and the other big US carriers. All current iPhones use GSM, so there would need to be a different device to work on Verizon's CDMA network. According to many observers, Apple has been working on an iPhone compatible with the largets US network for a long time now. In particular, John Gruber - who has a lot of inside sources and is so reliably pro-Apple that some people think that Steve Jobs pays him off - has been saying for a while that "Apple has a skunkworks CDMA iPhone project" like the skunkworks Intel Mac project back in the day when Mac OS X only ran on PowerPC.

    Gruber went further this week and specifically identified the CDMA iPhone by the Apple codename N92 (the iPhone 4, you may remember, was called N89 before its release). The phone, he says, is in Engineering Verification Test phase, which is limited to testing of one-off units inside the company. DVT, or Design Verification Test phase, is when Apple employees take phones out in the world (and lose them, sometimes). So if the CDMA phone takes that next step, it means the wheels need to already be turning for production in China.

    Bolstering this idea, TechCrunch's Steve Cheney reported at the beginning of the week that Apple is ordering millions of CDMA chips from Qualcomm. If Gruber is right that the VeriPhone is in EVT, then Apple would need to place that order right about now to have production ready by the end of the year. And as Michael reported the same day, leaks from the Asian manufacturing industry independently corroborated this story, and are indicating that a CDMA phone (possibly made of Apple's new Magic Metal) will be built by Pegatron for Verizon and China Telecom.

    Also this week, we learned that AT&T revealed in a filing to the SEC that it's warning its investors about possible negative effects when "exclusivity arrangements end" for popular smartphones. Since the iPhone is the only AT&T-exclusive smartphone that can be considered "popular," it's pretty clear what they were referring to. Big companies don't risk upsetting their investors for no reason. And finally, another piece of the puzzle came with the announcement this week that Verizon Chief Executive Officer Ivan Seidenberg had been selected to give the high-profile keynote address at the 2011 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas next January. The head of the big electronics confab said he'd be looking forward to hear about "Verizon’s next generation of products," which could certainly include a certain popular smartphone currently only available on a certain unpopular carrier.

    As Yogi Berra said, "It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future." We don't really know whether any of these reports are true, obviously. However, if you think you can wait until January for your next phone, and won't owe AT&T a huge early termination fee… it might not be a bad idea to wait and see what happens.
    This article was originally published in forum thread: About Those VeriPhone Rumors... started by Paul Daniel Ash View original post
    Comments 87 Comments
    1. TheiPhone911's Avatar
      TheiPhone911 -
      500 million CDMA users in China, 90 mill GSM At&t USA?? Why not make one? Close to 95 mill CDMA on Verizon? why not?
    1. Trooper Sam's Avatar
      Trooper Sam -
      Quote Originally Posted by sziklassy View Post
      Why would you release the GSM version in China if you have a CDMA version around the corner which will be available to far more users?
      Because you already have it!

      I don't have any numbers on hand as to whether the CDMA user base in China is larger than the GSM user base, though, so I can't venture a guess as to which part of the market is larger.
    1. Rcooley617's Avatar
      Rcooley617 -
      Quote Originally Posted by ampdrinkr8 View Post
      i have been told from a very close friend who works for verizon..... and from what ive heard its gonna happen .. that they are designing one iphone specifically for verizon only in the u.s ... but like everyone else .. im so sick of the rumors etc ... its to the point now ..i hope iT DOESNT HAPPEN ... just because how big s deal its became ... i think they should just offer to t-mobile and att only in the u.s ... bcthe iphone is what seperates the 2 companys as of the past few years obviously

      it may be, but think about it....Why make millions of dollars with just one company, instead of with two. Apple is all about profits, and if Verizon can make them more money than they are already making, why not....lol...Its the power of the dollar, nobody is going to deny more money
    1. confucious's Avatar
      confucious -
      I doubt if this is going to happen - but I could be wrong.
      But a couple of points:
      1) Outside the USA and China CDMA is virtually non existent. A few small carriers have it, lots more tried it and dumped it. In Canada the CDMA networks now use GSM as well so they can have the iPhone and I believe Australasia has now converted to GSM only (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong)

      2) In China the 3G network was split between 4 networks, 2 GSM and 2 CDMA - they do not know which networks will emerge as superior and are still testing, it is very early days but a very big market.

      3) Sprint/T-Mobile? Why? The reason Apple are interested in Verizon is because of the numbers. I don't believe Sprint or T-Mobile have the subscribers to warrant changes. While all it would take to enable it on T is a chip that allows their frequency I don't believe there is a chip that allows all frequencies and they are unlikely to manufacture separate phones just for T.

      4) If it goes to Verizon will it be JB/Unlocked? JB, probably. Unlocked? Is it possible? Have any CDMA phones been unlocked? I don't know a lot about CDMA but I believe the device has to be paired with the service by the service provider, unlocking certainly won't be as 'easy' as with GSM and I am not sure it's possible. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

      5) I don't believe it is as simple as replacing the GSM chips with CDMA chips, I believe most of the ancillary processors would need to be replaced as well but hardware is not my strong point. I do believe it will be a different beast altogether which will cause all sorts of challenges.

      I have used the term 'CDMA' as interchangeable with CDMA2000 as used by Verizon and 'GSM' as interchangeable with GSM/WCDMA used by AT&T and other carriers in all it's forms.
    1. Mrducati's Avatar
      Mrducati -
      Quote Originally Posted by ampdrinkr8 View Post
      i have been told from a very close friend who works for verizon..... and from what ive heard its gonna happen .. that they are designing one iphone specifically for verizon only in the u.s ... but like everyone else .. im so sick of the rumors etc ... its to the point now ..i hope iT DOESNT HAPPEN ... just because how big s deal its became ... i think they should just offer to t-mobile and att only in the u.s ... bcthe iphone is what seperates the 2 companys as of the past few years obviously
      Really dude......really? Ugh facepalm
    1. JerseyScottie's Avatar
      JerseyScottie -
      I don't believe in the Verizon rumors what so ever, hell I dont even like Verizon.BUT I think we are forgetting that verizon has used a sim card in the past..blackberry storm anyone ? So saying they would need a totally different phone is NOT exactly needed.
    1. Trooper Sam's Avatar
      Trooper Sam -
      The only reason any Verizon phone has had a SIM card slot, past or present, is so that they could use the term "World Phone", as having a GSM radio installed was the only way they could ensure that such a device would have service anywhere else in the world. Over here, they were intended to just run on the CDMA network.
    1. santacruzlocal's Avatar
      santacruzlocal -
      I'm so over these posts, my bad for reading it!!
    1. J_Marley's Avatar
      J_Marley -
      Quote Originally Posted by JerseyScottie View Post
      I don't believe in the Verizon rumors what so ever, hell I dont even like Verizon.BUT I think we are forgetting that verizon has used a sim card in the past..blackberry storm anyone ? So saying they would need a totally different phone is NOT exactly needed.
      As stated by the post below yours, the SIM card slot on CDMA phones only work for overseas use. It will not work here in the states. Verizon does not use SIM cards. If you check out the Blackberry Storm2 or htc TouchPro2, you'll notice that it lists a different type of GSM than what is used for the iPhone or other such devices.
    1. thetoothfairy's Avatar
      thetoothfairy -
      I love these kinds of threads! Love the rumors and love the responses!
    1. whereswaldo's Avatar
      whereswaldo -
      Quote Originally Posted by confucious View Post
      I doubt if this is going to happen - but I could be wrong.
      But a couple of points:
      1) Outside the USA and China CDMA is virtually non existent. A few small carriers have it, lots more tried it and dumped it. In Canada the CDMA networks now use GSM as well so they can have the iPhone and I believe Australasia has now converted to GSM only (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong)
      Your kinda right, in canada the the CDMA carriers switched to something like GSM. In Canada we are far past GSM, we are two generations ahead with HSPA+, which is 3 times faster than GSM. GSM/3G (tops out at 7kbps) < HSPA/3.5G ( tops out around 15) < HSPA+ (tops out at 21)
      Rogers still uses GSM for phone calls and texts (95% of canadians are covered by it) and when possible, we use HSPA+ for internet (88% of canadians are covered by it).
      Hope I cleared things up, not confused you
    1. confucious's Avatar
      confucious -
      GSM/WCDMA is all part of the 3GPP which extends from GSM->3G->HSDPA->HSDPA+ (which will go up to 84 Mbit/s with release 9) and extends to LTE (hence the name Long Term Evolution) which is just an evolution and extension of these standards.
      This is why I said that I used the term GSM (as it is one that most people recognise to include all the GSM/WCDMA technologies up to and including LTE rather than try and list the individual technologies used by individual companies.
    1. whereswaldo's Avatar
      whereswaldo -
      ^GSM is 3G
    1. confucious's Avatar
      confucious -
      No, GSM is 2G
      3G is UMTS
      as is HSDPA
      They are all part of 3GPP
      If you want to know more try starting at 3GPP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      If you want more technical details on any of these technologies I'm sure I could dig something out of my archives.
    1. dale2's Avatar
      dale2 -
      So...if a CDMA iphone gets released, can i flash it cricket and pay $40/month for unlimited voice, messing, and data?
    1. confucious's Avatar
      confucious -
      No
    1. CaptainChaos's Avatar
      CaptainChaos -
      Quote Originally Posted by Poseidon79 View Post
      Once the exclusivity agreement expires they could manufacture a T-Mobile version alongside the AT&T version... just with a different baseband chip to include the other 3G frequency.
      Wouldn't a quad band work? All apple has to do really is drop an unlocked phone in the US market and tons of other GSM carriers could offer the iPhone to their users.
    1. confucious's Avatar
      confucious -
      Is there such a thing as a quad band 3G chip? If so, can it be manufactured in sufficient quantities?
    1. nightsoarer's Avatar
      nightsoarer -
      Quote Originally Posted by J_Marley View Post
      lol, classic bait and switch. Not sure if you were actually asking or just trying to get a reaction, but thanks. And I'm sure I would be happy to if I had them right in front of me, but it's been a couple months since I have had to do the research myself and there is a LOT of information on the differences between them. If you are honestly that interested in the information, send me a PM and I'll find what I have on it. Always happy to help inform.

      One thing about forums and our 'news' is that most of it is half truths based on a small bit of fact and then extrapolated to mean what we want it to. For instance, 'unlocking' a CDMA phone kinda doesn't exist in the conventional sense. It's not like GSM where you just pop a SIM card in and the carrier information is already there. With CDMA the settings are programmed into the phone from the carrier and would need to be updated with each carrier you go to. Most won't even take a device from another company. And if a company has never carried that particular device, chances are they will not have the exact programming to have the phone work accurately for that device. You may get lucky, but there's a higher probability that you won't.
      How is it that CDMA is better than GSM if, like you said, it's more of a struggle to unlock a CDMA phone? Frankly it would make more sense for Apple to develop the iPhone under TMobile before they'd put it on Verizon. If you've actually been doing some research you'd know that CDMA is approaching extinction, hence the reason for the rollout of 4g and LTE on Verizon's network. It wouldn't make much sense for Apple to develop a CDMA iPhone seeing as how everything is converting to GSM. And all in the same token, the iPhone would not be able to boast such features such as simultaneous voice and data.. It just doesn't make sense.. And that's why we've had nothing but rumors of carrier changes for the past 3 years now.
    1. J_Marley's Avatar
      J_Marley -
      Quote Originally Posted by nightsoarer View Post
      If you've actually been doing some research you'd know that CDMA is approaching extinction, hence the reason for the rollout of 4g and LTE on Verizon's network.
      [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution]3GPP Long Term Evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]